Picture of pabbajja novice ordination in Pa Auk (8th April 2014)

Updated January 1, 2026

Summary: If you are looking to ordain at places that have Theravāda Buddhism and follow vinaya (places that don’t touch money), and you believe in the Commentaries and Abhidhamma and want to meditate, you have two choices: Pa-Auk and Na-Uyana. There is a new place in Thailand as well. If you don’t believe in the Commentaries and Abhidhamma, you are best off at a Thai Forest Monastery such as Ajahn Chah (Mahanikaya) or Ajahn Maha Boowa (Dhammayut) monasteries. Both traditions have a presence in the West and in Thailand. There are other places that I might recommend too. I will mention them later.

Introduction:

I often get asked for advice about “where to ordain.” I am not an expert, but I have lived in Pa-Auk and Na-Uyana for many years. I have also stayed at several Thai Forest Tradition monasteries as well. Usually, people who approach me are interested in Pa-Auk or Na-Uyana and cannot make up their mind. This article is not short and is probably not for someone who has no intention of ordaining or does not care where monks ordain.

Do You Know How to Meditate?

I also often find out that they have never done a meditation retreat after quite a long exchange. Please do a few retreats, preferably Goenka, before you think about monkhood.

Do You Like the Abhidhamma and Commentaries?

The first thing I always ask is, “Do you like the Abhidhamma and Commentaries?” I ask this first because Westerners, and Asians who are “Westernized,” usually do not like the Abhidhamma and Commentaries. This quickly narrows things down, and my advice is not really for them. We can tidy up the conversation quickly with a few Thai places which they can explore from there.

You Don’t Like the Commentaries & Abhidhamma

The Thai Forest Tradition, especially among the branches for Westerners, is for people who do not like the Abhidhamma or Commentaries. If Thai tradition monks are politically correct, they will say they like some Commentaries but prefer to only study the suttas, which is the same thing as saying they do not believe in the Commentaries and Abhidhamma. However, you probably don’t read romance novels because you don’t like them. In fact, you might have never read one, but you know you won’t like them. The Thai tradition is a little bit like that in terms of the Commentaries and Abhidhamma.

Philosophy Matching

“Philosophy matching” is important and is the general theme of this article. You should find a monastery that matches your philosophy. If you want to learn texts, don’t ordain at a meditation center. If you want to meditate, don’t ordain at a pariyatti (study) monastery. If you want to use money, don’t ordain at a vinaya-following monastery.

So, if you don’t like the Commentaries and Abhidhamma, you would not want to ordain at monasteries where those texts play a central role in the day-to-day mode of practice. Since most practice systems are based on the Commentaries and Abhidhamma, a monk who does not follow these texts will find it difficult in such monasteries, even if they only want to do breath meditation. Why? If one is not going with the flow of the monastery, it just won’t work for them.

Most of the monks who don’t follow the Commentaries like to try to figure things out themselves or follow another monk who did that on his own too. So what happens is they get enlightened and the Commentaries would say that is impossible. They say they are, and that is the stubborn split. The Thai Forest Tradition often speaks of a “citta.” You can read up on the debate quite easily. Read up.

Study Monasteries Help You Study

The same is true when setting your focus. I spent four months at a study monastery and found it easy to learn the Pāṭimokkha (monks’ rules) by memory, relative to many failed attempts at meditation centers.

Vinaya (Monk Rules)

I only recommend places that follow the rules (vinaya-following monasteries). It is the same as philosophy matching, but more serious. If you are told it is “okay” to break the rules, then it can lead to very bad kamma. Most monasteries (about 98%) break the rules on money. Most monks who break the rules on money often break the majority of bhikkhu rules the Buddha created for his monks to follow. Breaking the rules is disrespectful to the Original Teacher, the Buddha. It will bring demerit rather than the great merit that can be earned as a monk. Using money is a serious matter because it is unallowable every second you have money or things bought with money. Small drops of kamma like this add up quickly, like rain filling the ocean. See this video here.

Theravāda exists in many countries but has roots in five major countries: Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Thailand, Cambodia, and Laos. Of those five, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, and Thailand have more of a presence in the ordination of foreigners. Cambodia has over 40 vinaya monasteries that are quite reputable in following the vinaya and Commentaries, but visas are not easy for long-term stays. I do, however, know some of these monks who study in Myanmar, and they are very good monks.

The Teacher

Once you decide on the tradition, there are teachers within a tradition who will appeal to you or not appeal to you. If you don’t like the philosophy of the monastery or abbot, you will dislike the teacher and the way things are run in the monastery.

Even if you agree about samādhi but not the other aspects and still want to go, you are making a huge mistake. You will simply dislike the day-to-day routines and the required interaction with the teachers. Don’t look at the facilities, the Western or Eastern presence, the advantages, or the amount of freedom you are given. First, look and see whether you match the abbot or leader of the organization. It is very important. After you narrow down your choice based on philosophy and teachers, then start looking at other qualities.

Read the Connected Books

Books: Read the books of the abbot or legacy abbot. Can you finish the books without getting bored or annoyed? Are they too complex, technical, or against what you believe in? These are big warning signs. On the other hand, do you really groove with the writings? This can be a clear sign that this place is for you. When I was ready to ordain at Wat Pah Nanachat, I came across Knowing and Seeing by Venerable Pa-Auk Sayadawgyi. I was in Myanmar within two weeks. When you find your teacher, you will feel a strong urge to go see him as quickly as possible. Follow that urge, especially if you have visited several places and teachers beforehand.

Age as a Factor

Age: Age is a factor too. Usually, the Thai tradition does well with those who ordain at an early age. When I say young, I mean under age 26. There is a “military” feel to the Thai Forest Tradition, and because of that, being young helps a great deal in terms of survival and acceptance within that system. Thai Forest monks are very well indoctrinated, which is difficult at a later age. If you go to a Thai Forest Monastery, ask senior monks when they ordained and look at the demographics. Age is no guarantee of success or failure, and there are many variants, especially in the West, but understand that there is a military feel to the tradition, particularly in Thailand itself. You can ask them. They will tell you.

Myanmar does well with older people. It is common in Myanmar to ordain after one’s children have grown up. It is common for a Myanmar man in his 50s or 60s to ordain. Myanmar also has many monks who ordain as children and continue onward as adults. Many teachers with Dhammācariya degrees started when they were young. Myanmar also ordains people in their 20s, 30s, and 40s. I tend to see people in their 30s and 40s ordain in Myanmar, but there are some in their 20s. Myanmar monasteries are also large—industrial size. Pa-Auk main branch usually has upwards of 600 monks and 1,200 residents during normal times. The Pa-Auk Maymyo branch has about 230 monks and 550 residents.

In Sri Lanka, there is Na-Uyana of the Galduwa (Cave Dweller) tradition. They have a rule that they do not ordain anyone over 55. Usually, candidates are in their 30s, 40s, and 50s. Na-Uyana has about 250 monks and novices, including their pariyatti center down the road.

In Myanmar (Burma), you have the choice of Pa-Auk and Pa-Auk branches. Fortunately, there are quite a few branch monasteries one can visit. However, only a handful are suitable for foreigners and ordination. A few independent monasteries do exist. Even so, many of these “independent” monasteries have abbots who grew up in Pa-Auk. Varanasi Monastery is one such place. Mahāvihāra is a high-quality independent vinaya monastery with about 1,600 monks. However, this is not suitable for most foreigners or for those focused on meditation. These are traditional study monasteries without individual lodgings for most monks.

Unlisted Monasteries

What about other famous monasteries in Myanmar such as Mahasi, Swe Oo Min, and Panditarama? They did not make my list as places to ordain because, although there are some monks who do not use money at some of these places, it is not the norm and is quite rare, especially at Swe Oo Min and Panditarama. There have also been technical problems with Panditarama’s ordination halls, old and new, which caused two monks to re-ordain at Pa-Auk and lose their seniority. I have never met a vinaya monk from Mahasi, Mogok, or Sitagu monasteries, except for one Sitagu monk from Texas who came to Pa-Auk and later disrobed. He knew he had made a mistake. Sitagu Sayadaw, as well as most other non-vinaya monks, are not afraid to have their pictures taken accepting plates of cash, let alone discreet envelopes.

EBT or Early Buddhist Texts

While EBT has become popular in the West, it is far from mainstream Theravāda Buddhism. It is a very small fringe group with mostly junior, inexperienced monks compared to the vast majority of monks in Theravāda countries. In fact, EBT is not Theravāda, and they do not claim to be Theravāda. I am recommending only Theravāda places, and therefore places that bill themselves as EBT are not on the list. Furthermore, EBT proponents accuse ancient Theravāda elders of conspiring to lie and intentionally change the Buddhist teachings. EBT is not suitable for young monks, let alone someone totally new who wishes to ordain. Lastly, it should be noted that EBT material is mostly from Chinese texts. These texts were most likely translated from Sanskrit sources from the very same sects that held some very odd and strange views, as listed in the Kathāvatthu (Controversial Points, PTS). If you like EBT, be sure to read that book. It is translated. You should be very wary of accepting such texts as an authority over the Pāḷi Theravāda texts.

Let’s recap:

• The EBT group found on SuttaCentral is very open that they are not Theravāda.
• The core Chinese EBT texts were most likely translated from Sanskrit to Chinese and then to English, and proponents claim these texts are more reliable than the original Pāḷi texts. If something is missing from a translated text with three layers of translation, conspiracy alarms are raised.
• The core Chinese EBT texts are most likely from the same heretical groups with odd views on Dhamma, as mentioned in the Kathāvatthu (Controversial Points, PTS).

The Thai Forest Tradition

Thailand has the Ajahn Chah tradition and the Dhammayut tradition, both rooted in Ajahn Mun. My most popular post is The Dark Side of Ajahn Mun’s Biography, which discusses a controversial point in the book. You might want to read it first. Just a word of warning: the Dhammayut tradition allows smoking and chewing betel nut, which are highly addictive, yet according to their philosophy do not prevent one from removing all traces of desire. In other words, the Thai Forest Tradition is very clear that one can be a full arahant and still be addicted to smoking and chewing. The Ajahn Chah tradition does not allow this practice, even though they do not argue that smoking is a hindrance, because Ajahn Chah once smoked cigarettes until he decided to quit.¹ So if you are against smoking and chewing betel nut, as well as against the Commentaries and Abhidhamma, you should look no further than the Ajahn Chah monasteries in Thailand and the West.

Wat Pah Nanachat (WPN): A forest monastery whose philosophy is based on the writings of Ajahn Chah. You need to read these books to understand the teachings. If you want to ordain there, you should like Ajahn Chah’s books and the philosophy of doing work as a form of practice. You should also read books by the abbots of these monasteries if they have written any. In Thailand, you will be brought back 100 years by doing things the “old-fashioned” way. Meals are usually once per day, with daily chores lasting about 1.5 hours unless there is a full workday. Once or twice per week, a full or half workday can be expected. There are also meetings and daily tea time. There is almost no formal guidance in meditation; you will need to go elsewhere for that. The Western branches offer a light breakfast and have a similar schedule, but usually with more work periods, meetings, and structure.

Wat Marp Jan and Ajahn Anan currently a lot of Westerners choose to ordain instead of WPN. They have a lot of English speakers there and lots of Malaysians go there too. You can see their Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/@AjahnAnan

Wat Ban Tad (Dhammayut): The Ajahn Maha Boowa monastery. It is old-fashioned like the above, but may have fewer chores and workdays. There are lots of chickens, smoking, and chewing of betel nut there. Some foreigners have ordained there. This is probably the most famous Dhammayut monastery in Thailand. Ajahn Thanissaro has a branch in California and is from this tradition. Dhammayut monasteries are quite exclusive to their own ordained monks. If you ordain there, you are likely to be welcomed at Wat Metta, California. There is also another branch monastery in Virginia, but I have not heard of residents lasting long there.

Forest Sangha (Ajahn Chah): A network of monasteries in the West, with several in England and the USA, as well as other European countries. See forestsangha.org. If you want more of your own culture, something slightly more modern, and do not want to be forced to learn Thai, these monasteries may suit you. Be sure you are in line with Ajahn Chah’s books and the writings of the current abbot or residents before choosing them.

Wat Metta (Dhammayut), Ajahn Thanissaro: A great scholar monk who also teaches meditation. His method is similar to Goenka’s. Make sure you meet the abbot and speak one-on-one with him often to understand his personality and philosophy. He is very accessible and gives a lot of attention to those who ordain with him. He has written The Buddhist Monastic Code volumes 1 and 2, which are excellent books, minus their bias toward the Thai tradition. I did not see anyone smoking at his monastery and asked about it over 20 years ago. He did not think smoking and betel nut were a problem regarding enlightenment and allows them if a monk “needs” them. They are considered medicine in the Thai tradition and justified with some controversial Pāḷi quotes. You will have plenty of time to meditate at this center. Some learned monks find his views on Dhamma controversial. His monastery has grown steadily over the years, which is a good sign. In 1999, there was only one Western monastic disciple.

Wat Bodhinyana (Ajahn Brahm): A monastery in Perth, Australia. There is often a waiting list to enter, yet many monks I know became disenchanted after visiting and living there. They expected personal time with Ajahn Brahm and rarely got it. There is, however, plenty of time to meditate, and chores are only three days per week, which is very little for a Thai Ajahn Chah–rooted monastery. Ajahn Brahm and his monasteries are no longer part of the Forest Sangha network; they were expelled in 2009 due to bhikkhunī ordinations. Ajahn Brahm and his monks remain at Bodhinyana despite those requests. There are also complications if you ordain there and later want to visit other Thai monasteries. Last I heard, you may visit but cannot participate fully in communal vinaya ceremonies. See https://bswa.org/location/bodhinyana-monastery/.

Other Options in Thailand

There is a Pa-Auk branch in Thailand called Angthong Meditation Center, and possibly another. These may have a full-time teacher. See https://www.paauktawyathailand.org/en/.

There are 12 monasteries in Thailand that follow vinaya very closely according to the Commentaries and Abhidhamma. The main center is Wat Khao Sanamchai in Hua Hin, which is a learning center. There is no website, but Google has information. Previously there was virtually no English support, but now there is training in English or at a related monastery. Their monks often come to Pa-Auk in Myanmar for meditation, and there is a four-posture meditation center down the hill. Phone: +66 32 536 604.

Wat Prathat Nong Sam Muen is another of these 12 monasteries, located in a rural area with a quiet village for alms. There are about 50 monks. Thai tradition is ignored when it contradicts Pāḷi texts and Commentaries. For example, keeping eyebrows and allowing chocolate or bottled juice as seven-day medicines are not permitted. I have been there, and it is an excellent place, though primarily a study monastery.

Myanmar

Politics of Myanmar: The country has gone through political changes, which is nothing new. I lived there in 2001 when it was on an embargo list. Today it is far more developed, and restrictions are selective. If you stay out of politics, it should not affect your practice. You will be asked to sign a statement agreeing not to engage in politics. Pa-Auk monasteries are often near military bases, and monks sometimes receive free treatment at military hospitals. If this raises ethical concerns for you, consider a Pa-Auk branch in another country or Na-Uyana in Sri Lanka.

Pa-Auk Philosophy: Read Knowing and Seeing and The Workings of Kamma before deciding on Pa-Auk or Na-Uyana. Pa-Auk uses a personal requisite account system for medical needs and other expenses beyond what the monastery provides. Visa fees may also come from this account. Such accounts are legal in Buddhism and are mentioned in the texts and Commentaries.

Pa-Auk Main Branch, Mawlamyine: I no longer strongly recommend this place for ordination due to its size, but it can be a good landing point. It has clinics, buffet-style food, and is well organized. See https://www.paaukforestmonastery.org/.

Pa-Auk Pyin Oo Lwin: Designed for foreigners, with Venerable Pa-Auk Sayadawgyi residing there. It is large, well organized, cool in climate, and has structured vinaya and Dhamma classes. There is a long waiting list, and foreigners are currently accepted only in special cases. See https://paauksociety.org/.

Pa-Auk Dawei: Often recommended for new monks who cannot enter Pyin Oo Lwin. The abbot, Sayadaw U Kundadhana, offers strong monastic training and speaks fluent English. Meditation instruction is provided by resident teachers.

Pa-Auk Mudon: Beautiful and welcoming but not recommended for ordination due to language barriers.

Pa-Auk He-Ho (Sayadaw U Revata): Entry is difficult, but the abbot speaks excellent English and has published several books. Internet use is prohibited. Contact numbers are provided in the original text.

Indonesia Pa-Auk: Possible, but visas must be secured before ordination.

Sri Lanka

Na-Uyana Forest Monastery: A large monastery with multiple sections and strong vinaya. The primary meditation method is Pa-Auk, with flexibility for other methods. It offers a balance between Thai Forest and Pa-Auk styles. See https://nauyana.org/.

International Institute of Theravāda: A rigorous study monastery aligned with Na-Uyana. It focuses on traditional monastic education. See https://theravado.com.

Renagiri Lena Forest Monastery: An austere learning monastery with strong vinaya but limited support for foreigners.

Nisaranavanna (Mithrigala): A Mahasi-based monastery with proper vinaya and some English capability, though long-term suitability for foreigners is uncertain.

Malaysia

Malaysia has very strict visa rules. Only one foreign monk may reside per monastery. Visa runs are not viable and rejections can have lifelong consequences. Monasteries include Tusita, Pa-Auk branches, and Nandaka, but visa legality must be confirmed carefully.

Cambodia

Cambodia is predominantly Theravāda Buddhist. Pa-Auk Vipassanā Dhura monastery may be suitable for foreigners, but visas must be secured in advance. A business visa is required. Contact Bhante Kassapa at +85516442744.

Pa-Auk or Na-Uyana?

Both are excellent monasteries with Pa-Auk meditation. Pa-Auk is more like a meditation center with personal responsibility for requisites and visas. Na-Uyana covers costs but follows Sri Lankan systems and culture. Ordination timing, chanting, bowing, and structure differ. Na-Uyana is not officially affiliated with Pa-Auk, though they share methods.

Conclusion

I hope this information helps you. Philosophy matching is important when choosing where to ordain, but it does not prevent later interaction with other traditions after proper training. Ordaining with long-term intentions is a noble endeavor. I wish you the best and hope you find a good match leading to happiness and Nibbāna.

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